The RPG Pundit has broken news of a potential bombshell development in the Dungeons & Dragons world: Wizards of the Coast is allegedly preparing to launch a sixth edition of D&D, abandoning the disastrous 2024 edition that has driven fans away in droves.
I think it's too late. I do think that most people are just like me - once I get pushed out of something I loved, I tend to mentally separate from it to the point where I lose all interest and move on to something else. I have rarely gone back to media or entertainment that chose to shit on me.
Man, you hit the nail squarely on the head there. That’s me to a tee. I have only morbid curiosity and a glimmer that there might be some sort of course-correct, and provide hope that something new will. One out of all of this for my kid’s as late Z’s and an Alpha, or whatever.
My past favorites are buried but I sure hope there’s untapped greatness in the future.
I was a huge comic book nerd but stopped when prices got nuts. Now I have the Hoopla app and can read so many collected volumes from the past 10 years for free, but why? I know it's garbage that is meant to anger someone like me. I have been reading the Marvel Masterworks collections - early Iron Man, Captain America, Avengers - the great stuff. And I'm burning through the whole Knightfall collection. I used to love to pop into a comic book shop but now I feel like I'll just get airborne AIDS by being in the proximity of a Tom King title.
That is 100% their goal. They don't care about falling sales, the message comes first and foremost now. Are you so dense that you can't see that? Disney has a license to print money with the MCU and Star Wars and everything continues to underperform because they have to appeal to low IQ BLMLGBTQP clowns.
This is an excellent description of how the Left’s ‘Long March Through the Institutions works.’ It is one of the Left’s most powerful tools. While this is entertainment, it works just as well on megacorps, churches, and government agencies.
D&D hasn't been fun for a long time. Probably around 4E, when the player demographics stopped being people who loved the game and became people who played the game ironically. Theater kids, out of work actors, etc. Not nerds.
I dropped the game years ago when I ended up in a Roll20 online party with a DM and all players under 18. I tried to back out when I realized they were all under age but the DM begged me to play and teach them how to roleplay. The DM was a good kid, but his friends were girls and a gay kid none of whom had any real interest in the game. Which soon became apparent when they decided that all of their characters wanted to form a harem with my PC. That was when I quit the table and the hobby.
First, I would fire all of the clowns, the ringmasters, the petting zoo, and especially the Freak Show.
I would go Jim Shooter at Marvel comics on the office: tear out all the adult children stuff we know is there--shut down the adult daycare. I would make it into a professional office with a dress code and staffed with adults.
First creative descion: hold a press conference, send out a marketing kit. REAL art by REAL artists. Not just any art either, old school Larry Elmore, Jeff Easley, Clyde Caldwell, and Keith Parkinson style art. Brom too, even though he came after the big four.
People loathe AI slop so much and they loved those five artists so much, it would cause a groundswell of good will. Let's also remember that those artists were one of the biggest selling points of TSR D&D. WOTC either forgot, never understood, or willfully ignored that fact.
Next, have ONE crunchy, generic rule system that only needs to be bought once. Then, bring back 2nd edition worlds. THAT'S content you can milk forever without constant (and off-putting) rules refreshing. Rotate them in blocks like Magic cards, or something comparable. One year, you're doing Dark Sun, Ravenloft the next, Dragonlance, Birthright, Planescape, Spelljammer, Ebberon, Grey Hawk, etc.
You could have an endless 10 year cycle. Or do 2 a year and cycle every 5 or 6.
I would STRONGLY consider taking this rules edition back to 3.5 with a new coat of paint: 3.75. 3.x was one of the most robust and beloved systems they ever did, and I highly doubt even a competent team could make something better considering 3.5 took more than a decade of talented and smart design work back when talent and smarts were rewarded.
But a plan like that would take guts, commitment, and a willingness to admit what you did wrong and learn from that.
So, it's a non-starter for me no matter whose name they slap on the label.
3 / 3.5 is really well done with some key failings:
- combat is hard to balance, and when you get it right takes a long time to resolve
- there are thousands of different rules for classes, feats, powers, etc. This is good in the sense that it provides opportunities for supplements, but also results in some “builds” being extremely effective while others look as if they should be fun but struggle
- too many interesting but single-use abilities can whiff, which is frustrating. Essentials started to address this.
3.x does have its issues, but in totality, I would argue it's the best rules set D&D has ever put out. Pathfinder basically existing because so many people didn't want to move away from it says a lot.
There's also been enough "playtesting" of 3.x and Pathfinder, decades now, that a competent team could put together a proper refresh addressing some of its weaknesses.
It would be nice to see some of the encounter level load balancing reduced for DMs for sure. Anything past 12-13 level was one heck of a chore.
Bringing in Hickman and Greenwood as memberberries won't fool anybody. The mOdErN aUdIEnCe, if if they existed in significant numbers, dont know them. And the old hats are to wise to the game by now. WotC would pretty much have to replace their whole design and artist staff to get rid of the ideology that infected the game and turned customers away. That's the biggest problem of D&D imho. It doesn't really matter if tge system is not nearly as crunchy as 3.5 or 2nd. D&D sits best as an introductory system that is easy to pick up with just enough crunch to be able to dive a but deeper. A second more crunchier rule set, advanced if you will, would be the best way to go.
But again, the main problem is making the game unrecognizable due to politics and alienating core audiences. Why does that sound so familiar...?
Moral of the story? Play 3.5. They have been trying to reinvent the wheel since then. Yes, it had it's problems with the billion classes and whatnot but if you have a common sense DM and party it is the best system to play. I'm guessing that 6th edition, at best, will simply incorporate some of the 3.5 stuff back and it will just be an inferior 3.5.
I'll look at 6e just like I looked at 5e - see if it's worth bothering to learn yet another set of rules. 5e sure didn't entice. My hopes are not high when I remember that WotC is still the same subculture they have self-selected for a very long time. At best, I figure it will be, as already mentioned in another comment here, lipstick on a pig - a nonbinary, multiracial, antifa pig.
I haven't played D&D for decades but am still fond of it and plan on teaching my kids. But as an old guy, I'm just curious [no snark intended]. Why don't players just buy up older version books and play like we used to play? I was there when the original paperback books made way for Advanced D&D and that definitely was a big improvement. Between then and now, what has improved to make someone want to buy newer versions?
This finally stated what I’ve been feeling for years! Down with D&D wokeness BS. Bring back the adults please!! Grognards may just save this game in the end…
I think it's too late. I do think that most people are just like me - once I get pushed out of something I loved, I tend to mentally separate from it to the point where I lose all interest and move on to something else. I have rarely gone back to media or entertainment that chose to shit on me.
Man, you hit the nail squarely on the head there. That’s me to a tee. I have only morbid curiosity and a glimmer that there might be some sort of course-correct, and provide hope that something new will. One out of all of this for my kid’s as late Z’s and an Alpha, or whatever.
My past favorites are buried but I sure hope there’s untapped greatness in the future.
I was a huge comic book nerd but stopped when prices got nuts. Now I have the Hoopla app and can read so many collected volumes from the past 10 years for free, but why? I know it's garbage that is meant to anger someone like me. I have been reading the Marvel Masterworks collections - early Iron Man, Captain America, Avengers - the great stuff. And I'm burning through the whole Knightfall collection. I used to love to pop into a comic book shop but now I feel like I'll just get airborne AIDS by being in the proximity of a Tom King title.
That is 100% their goal. They don't care about falling sales, the message comes first and foremost now. Are you so dense that you can't see that? Disney has a license to print money with the MCU and Star Wars and everything continues to underperform because they have to appeal to low IQ BLMLGBTQP clowns.
This is an excellent description of how the Left’s ‘Long March Through the Institutions works.’ It is one of the Left’s most powerful tools. While this is entertainment, it works just as well on megacorps, churches, and government agencies.
Woketards protested halflings and other mixed-race humanoids. #Ohtheirony
D&D hasn't been fun for a long time. Probably around 4E, when the player demographics stopped being people who loved the game and became people who played the game ironically. Theater kids, out of work actors, etc. Not nerds.
I dropped the game years ago when I ended up in a Roll20 online party with a DM and all players under 18. I tried to back out when I realized they were all under age but the DM begged me to play and teach them how to roleplay. The DM was a good kid, but his friends were girls and a gay kid none of whom had any real interest in the game. Which soon became apparent when they decided that all of their characters wanted to form a harem with my PC. That was when I quit the table and the hobby.
Not gonna lie, the theatrical takeover of the marketing face of D&D is pretty gross IMHO
If I ran that particular circus:
First, I would fire all of the clowns, the ringmasters, the petting zoo, and especially the Freak Show.
I would go Jim Shooter at Marvel comics on the office: tear out all the adult children stuff we know is there--shut down the adult daycare. I would make it into a professional office with a dress code and staffed with adults.
First creative descion: hold a press conference, send out a marketing kit. REAL art by REAL artists. Not just any art either, old school Larry Elmore, Jeff Easley, Clyde Caldwell, and Keith Parkinson style art. Brom too, even though he came after the big four.
People loathe AI slop so much and they loved those five artists so much, it would cause a groundswell of good will. Let's also remember that those artists were one of the biggest selling points of TSR D&D. WOTC either forgot, never understood, or willfully ignored that fact.
Next, have ONE crunchy, generic rule system that only needs to be bought once. Then, bring back 2nd edition worlds. THAT'S content you can milk forever without constant (and off-putting) rules refreshing. Rotate them in blocks like Magic cards, or something comparable. One year, you're doing Dark Sun, Ravenloft the next, Dragonlance, Birthright, Planescape, Spelljammer, Ebberon, Grey Hawk, etc.
You could have an endless 10 year cycle. Or do 2 a year and cycle every 5 or 6.
I would STRONGLY consider taking this rules edition back to 3.5 with a new coat of paint: 3.75. 3.x was one of the most robust and beloved systems they ever did, and I highly doubt even a competent team could make something better considering 3.5 took more than a decade of talented and smart design work back when talent and smarts were rewarded.
But a plan like that would take guts, commitment, and a willingness to admit what you did wrong and learn from that.
So, it's a non-starter for me no matter whose name they slap on the label.
3 / 3.5 is really well done with some key failings:
- combat is hard to balance, and when you get it right takes a long time to resolve
- there are thousands of different rules for classes, feats, powers, etc. This is good in the sense that it provides opportunities for supplements, but also results in some “builds” being extremely effective while others look as if they should be fun but struggle
- too many interesting but single-use abilities can whiff, which is frustrating. Essentials started to address this.
3.x does have its issues, but in totality, I would argue it's the best rules set D&D has ever put out. Pathfinder basically existing because so many people didn't want to move away from it says a lot.
There's also been enough "playtesting" of 3.x and Pathfinder, decades now, that a competent team could put together a proper refresh addressing some of its weaknesses.
It would be nice to see some of the encounter level load balancing reduced for DMs for sure. Anything past 12-13 level was one heck of a chore.
Tracy Hickman is not married to Margaret Weis. They are longtime collaborators, but not married.
With any luck this will be another case of lipstick on a pig.
Meanwhile, if you want an infinitely superior replacement, give ACKS II a whirl: https://discord.gg/cRpNcse2kv
I don't like ACKS, you can't play a half-orc.
Bringing in Hickman and Greenwood as memberberries won't fool anybody. The mOdErN aUdIEnCe, if if they existed in significant numbers, dont know them. And the old hats are to wise to the game by now. WotC would pretty much have to replace their whole design and artist staff to get rid of the ideology that infected the game and turned customers away. That's the biggest problem of D&D imho. It doesn't really matter if tge system is not nearly as crunchy as 3.5 or 2nd. D&D sits best as an introductory system that is easy to pick up with just enough crunch to be able to dive a but deeper. A second more crunchier rule set, advanced if you will, would be the best way to go.
But again, the main problem is making the game unrecognizable due to politics and alienating core audiences. Why does that sound so familiar...?
Moral of the story? Play 3.5. They have been trying to reinvent the wheel since then. Yes, it had it's problems with the billion classes and whatnot but if you have a common sense DM and party it is the best system to play. I'm guessing that 6th edition, at best, will simply incorporate some of the 3.5 stuff back and it will just be an inferior 3.5.
Probably not wrong.
I'll look at 6e just like I looked at 5e - see if it's worth bothering to learn yet another set of rules. 5e sure didn't entice. My hopes are not high when I remember that WotC is still the same subculture they have self-selected for a very long time. At best, I figure it will be, as already mentioned in another comment here, lipstick on a pig - a nonbinary, multiracial, antifa pig.
I haven't played D&D for decades but am still fond of it and plan on teaching my kids. But as an old guy, I'm just curious [no snark intended]. Why don't players just buy up older version books and play like we used to play? I was there when the original paperback books made way for Advanced D&D and that definitely was a big improvement. Between then and now, what has improved to make someone want to buy newer versions?
For young people just getting into the game, they buy whatever is on the shelf right in front of them. They don't know any better.
This finally stated what I’ve been feeling for years! Down with D&D wokeness BS. Bring back the adults please!! Grognards may just save this game in the end…
I hope this is true. I want to replace my young nephew's books with neutral-aligned ones ASAP.