A report came out a few days ago that Star Trek was erasing Star Trek: Discovery from canon, which is not true, though Lower Decks did imply the show is in an alternate reality.
Everyone has their own opinions. I just wanted to stop by and say Star Trek Discovery is one of my favorite shows. I liked it because they explored more options other than Starfleet being the perfect society with all problems solved.
I’m not a fan of the show largely because it was so dystopian and I didn’t like aesthetics…. However unlike some people I don’t hate people who might like it. As long as they are respectful and nice. So cheers to you.
It's not that big of a deal. I've considered everything after Star Trek 2009 as an alternate reality. That includes Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, and even Strange New Worlds.
They are all in an alternate reality. None of them effect the TOS, TNG, DS9, or Voyager timelines.
Oddly enough, I even consider Enterprise an alternate reality show, or at best, a holodeck show, as shown by the last episode.
One could argue that SNW kinda ignores or erases TOS in its history. By changing the eugenics war/khan histories and dates. Making Kahn more evil and genocidal than TOS/ST2 Khan rather than admired and respected but stern benevolent dictator.
But DS9 and Ent may have done that to some degree as well. According to what some of the showrunners said back then.
Also how it handles how Gorn are introduced (Scotty knows about them but didn’t in TOS), or how some of the TOS crew members met. Or how T'Pring met crew members earlier than how TOS introduced her….
Actually McMahon also explained the Disco Klingons, that not every shift was a multiversal shift some were shifts in time in the same universe as LD.
So think flashbacks or flash forwards not flash sideways.
He used barge as an example as another such flashback. In other words we saw a shift back to season 1 Discovery a hundred years ago not necessarily a flash sideways to another universe.
In addition LD is in the disco timeline via its ties to SNW Tendi’s ancestors story was told in the SNW crossover episode, and we see a recruitment poster in future with Una/SNW enterprise, and first episode of Season 5 LD discussed the Becket/Boimler’s trip to the past meeting Pike from that episode. Might have been another reference to Tendi’s ancestor too. LD also has section 31 with the black badges. Gormaganders were mentioned in this season too. There maybe other subtle references to disco too throughout the seasons.
Prodigy made references to Discovery being in the past first showing Crossfield class ship Ona diagram and also Disco/SNW Constitution design, and In season two its mentioned that Discovery is classified by the Federarion by Wesley.
Disco season 3-5 took place in future after Picard and makes references to Picard and other details from LD, and Prodigy as well. It also caps Enterprise Daniel’s story. Since he’s from that future as well. And also Unifications storyline with pictures of Spock and Picard from TNG…. It also tied into Kelvin universe as well. It was there prime universe whose incursions into Kelvin created that alternate timeline/dimension. It confirmed that Disco is from the same quantum signature and timeline.
Section 31 is set in the era of Enterprise C and is a Disco spinoff from Season 3.
And upcoming Academy is set after Disco but before Short Treks Calypso. Actually before the ship is restored back to its stock layout.
It follows Tilly’s adventures teaching at the academy, and brings back Voyager’s EMH. Last seen in Prodigy. But since it’s still technically set in period when Discovery is still active it leaves room for ship to appear or guest stars from the show to return.
So in reality Kurtzman is doubling down on Disco spinoffs…. And continuity links…
Huge fan of ALL iterations of Star Trek and ok with the extensions of STOS canon as the versions have been introduced. My only disappointment is that Discovery has ended its run though the final episode was well done. The essential quality that sets Star Trek apart and are the characteristics that makes Star Trek are its exploration of philosophical debates and a proactive dream of the future. The character development in Discovery as superb. My only issue is that the spore drive technology was not made available to more vessels though it’s clear how that would have rendered a distinct advantage in any galactic conflict. 🖖🏾
All of nutrek takes place in temporal Cold War altered time line. As per SNW. That much is certain.
Disco takes place in that same altered timeline. LD takes place in that same altered timelines as per the crossover… Disco is currently in the far future of that altered timeline long after LD and leads into upcoming Academy show.
The producer has left it open to interpretation to a point cause he likes trolling the fans, but also suggests that it isn’t necessarily a multiversal shift but a shift back in time.
So that, like barge of the dead the Klingons shifted into a past crew/shup, not an alternate dimension, but from a period hundred years ago during events of Disco.
“It’s also not firmly [established]–another multiversal shift we saw is it turned into a Klingon sail barge. “
LD also has the disco Section 31 with the black badges also established in Discovery. Stupid idea but LD acknowledges it. The crossover episode worked in both directions. LD visited SNW, in Tendi’s past, and Unu/SNW enterprise appears on a recruitment poster in the LD period. SNW crew went animated due to hallucinations. The next episode of LD acknowledged their Pike encounter from the crossover….
Even if it was some convoluted russian nesting dolls parallel universe that is a parallel universe of a parallel universe (inception style) via STD, SNW and LD and Prodigy and all the other shows that mention Disco events or are spinoffs). The ideas of parallel universes are still a “canon” concept. Otherwise Mirror Universe would not be canon.
It’s been noted by old trek producers and writers they mostly avoided setting a date for the eugenics wars. Their comments in example in Voyager had to do with their decision how to portray California in Future's End episodes which are set in 1996 Los Angeles there is no indication the war happened indeed California looks untouched.
Seeing as Spock seemed to imply that much of the world was hit with neutron/nuclear bombs iirc in another episode? It seems off. Also Spock conflated Eugenics Wars with WW3 something which TNG retconned WW3 placement, and moved up into the 21st century. Also Khan calls it a world war too in the same episode.
SNW wasn’t the first series to conflate WW3 and Eugenics Wars that honor goes back to TOS itself…. And it’s also mentioned most of world population was bombed in the same episode Space Seed.
In anycase in Voy they did toss in an Easter egg of a photo of a DY-100 launch taken from the Khan episode without context (iirc it’s stated that Botany Bay launch was largely in secret, there were no records, only rumors, so they didn’t want people to know they had left or where they had left to, and therefore not something you’d expect to be seen in office of an observatory where it’s found, though it could just be a launch of some other Dy-100 launched back then), it’s a blink or you’ll miss it image. But they tossed in at least one other Star Trek Easter egg as well including Talosian action figures which were sold back in 1996.
The producers have said there reasoning for not showing a nuclear wasteland back then was because h they wanted people to relate to the 1996 setting in our real world, and it was using elements of real world history such as the rise of internet and computer revolution. Very similar reason why SNW moves the war as well.
It may have been moved as early as TNG although it’s not specified in as much that Roddenberry moved WW3 to mid 21st century. Khan is mentioned at least once during the shows run but not when he lived.
———
It’s worth noting even Roddenberry ignored or decanonized much of the TOS/TOS movies and TAS apparently while he was making TNG. Although in theory TOS was fully bought back into the fold by producers after his death other than them retconning or avoiding or ignoring certain details like hard dates of eugenics wars…
“See, people can easily catch us, and say "well, wait a minute, in 'Balance of Terror', they knew that the Romulans had a cloaking device, and then in 'The Enterprise Incident', they don't know anything about cloaking devices, but they're gonna steal this one because it's obviously just been developed, so how the hell do you explain that?" We can't. There are some things we just can't explain, especially when it comes from the third season. So, yes, third season is canon up to the point of contradiction, or where it's just so bad... you know, we kind of cringe when people ask us, "well, what happened in 'Plato's Stepchildren', and 'And the Children Shall Lead', and 'Spock's Brain', and so on — it's like, please, he wasn't even producing it at that point. But, generally, [canon is] the original series, not really the animated, the first movie to a certain extent, the rest of the films in certain aspects but not in all... I know that it's very difficult to understand. It literally is point by point. I sometimes do not know how he's going to answer a question when I go into his office, I really do not always know, and — and I know it better probably than anybody, what it is that Gene likes and doesn't like.[3]— Richard Arnold, 1991
Another thing that makes canon a little confusing. Gene R. himself had a habit of decanonizing things. He didn't like the way the animated series turned out, so he proclaimed that it was not canon. He also didn't like a lot of the movies. So he didn't much consider them canon either. And – okay, I'm really going to scare you with this one – after he got TNG going, he... well... he sort of decided that some of The Original Series wasn't canon either. I had a discussion with him once, where I cited a couple things that were very clearly canon in The Original Series, and he told me he didn't think that way anymore, and that he now thought of TNG as canon wherever there was conflict between the two. He admitted it was revisionist thinking, but so be it.[4]— Paula Block, 2005
———-
Oddly enough while DS9 did bring back references to the eugenics war they place it in 22nd century if you do the math given in one episode. The writer has admitted that was a mistake based on a line by Khan on ST2, but they also wanted to avoid being specific with the dates as well they had assumed that the war probably happened later likely 21st century.
Ent made more references to Eugenic Wars. But not necessarily making an exact date. Phlox mentions augments are a 20th century technology. But doesn’t specify that the war itself was. While if you extrapolate from Archer’s family history his great-grandfather lived during the wars. The problem is going back over data and age of his father who died too young from degenerative disease, it implies that his great-grandfather probably born in 21st century…. If we follow average lifespans and generations gap data… especially when considering comments about population being drastically reduced and implication of nuclear wastelands….
I’m actually kinda disappointed people tried to push fake news clickbait off as fact…. Ir hurts their own credibility. If they had any to begin with.
Respect that FandomPulse didn’t take the bait.
As bad as Kurtzman Trek is it’s not worth spreading false information and lies. And destroy trust of the influencers especially for something that easily fact checked….
As long as Kurtzman is in charge it won’t happen he’ll double down. But even if he wasn’t I’m not sure the IP holders have the balls to erase material.
Maybe they might go for total reboot next… and thst could potentially be bad for the IP as well…. All we need is Jane T. Kirk And Jean Lucy Picard, and even more race swapping and gender swapping adventures.
Personally I think the best route is to just stop making content. Stop beating a dead horse. Let the series die….
Everyone has their own opinions. I just wanted to stop by and say Star Trek Discovery is one of my favorite shows. I liked it because they explored more options other than Starfleet being the perfect society with all problems solved.
I’m not a fan of the show largely because it was so dystopian and I didn’t like aesthetics…. However unlike some people I don’t hate people who might like it. As long as they are respectful and nice. So cheers to you.
It's not that big of a deal. I've considered everything after Star Trek 2009 as an alternate reality. That includes Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, and even Strange New Worlds.
They are all in an alternate reality. None of them effect the TOS, TNG, DS9, or Voyager timelines.
Oddly enough, I even consider Enterprise an alternate reality show, or at best, a holodeck show, as shown by the last episode.
One could argue that SNW kinda ignores or erases TOS in its history. By changing the eugenics war/khan histories and dates. Making Kahn more evil and genocidal than TOS/ST2 Khan rather than admired and respected but stern benevolent dictator.
But DS9 and Ent may have done that to some degree as well. According to what some of the showrunners said back then.
Also how it handles how Gorn are introduced (Scotty knows about them but didn’t in TOS), or how some of the TOS crew members met. Or how T'Pring met crew members earlier than how TOS introduced her….
Actually McMahon also explained the Disco Klingons, that not every shift was a multiversal shift some were shifts in time in the same universe as LD.
So think flashbacks or flash forwards not flash sideways.
He used barge as an example as another such flashback. In other words we saw a shift back to season 1 Discovery a hundred years ago not necessarily a flash sideways to another universe.
In addition LD is in the disco timeline via its ties to SNW Tendi’s ancestors story was told in the SNW crossover episode, and we see a recruitment poster in future with Una/SNW enterprise, and first episode of Season 5 LD discussed the Becket/Boimler’s trip to the past meeting Pike from that episode. Might have been another reference to Tendi’s ancestor too. LD also has section 31 with the black badges. Gormaganders were mentioned in this season too. There maybe other subtle references to disco too throughout the seasons.
Prodigy made references to Discovery being in the past first showing Crossfield class ship Ona diagram and also Disco/SNW Constitution design, and In season two its mentioned that Discovery is classified by the Federarion by Wesley.
Disco season 3-5 took place in future after Picard and makes references to Picard and other details from LD, and Prodigy as well. It also caps Enterprise Daniel’s story. Since he’s from that future as well. And also Unifications storyline with pictures of Spock and Picard from TNG…. It also tied into Kelvin universe as well. It was there prime universe whose incursions into Kelvin created that alternate timeline/dimension. It confirmed that Disco is from the same quantum signature and timeline.
Section 31 is set in the era of Enterprise C and is a Disco spinoff from Season 3.
And upcoming Academy is set after Disco but before Short Treks Calypso. Actually before the ship is restored back to its stock layout.
It follows Tilly’s adventures teaching at the academy, and brings back Voyager’s EMH. Last seen in Prodigy. But since it’s still technically set in period when Discovery is still active it leaves room for ship to appear or guest stars from the show to return.
So in reality Kurtzman is doubling down on Disco spinoffs…. And continuity links…
Huge fan of ALL iterations of Star Trek and ok with the extensions of STOS canon as the versions have been introduced. My only disappointment is that Discovery has ended its run though the final episode was well done. The essential quality that sets Star Trek apart and are the characteristics that makes Star Trek are its exploration of philosophical debates and a proactive dream of the future. The character development in Discovery as superb. My only issue is that the spore drive technology was not made available to more vessels though it’s clear how that would have rendered a distinct advantage in any galactic conflict. 🖖🏾
Discovery is the best star trek Ever so good job
You present zero evidence to dispute the actual report. it was always set in an alternate universe but now we know for sure
All of nutrek takes place in temporal Cold War altered time line. As per SNW. That much is certain.
Disco takes place in that same altered timeline. LD takes place in that same altered timelines as per the crossover… Disco is currently in the far future of that altered timeline long after LD and leads into upcoming Academy show.
The producer has left it open to interpretation to a point cause he likes trolling the fans, but also suggests that it isn’t necessarily a multiversal shift but a shift back in time.
So that, like barge of the dead the Klingons shifted into a past crew/shup, not an alternate dimension, but from a period hundred years ago during events of Disco.
https://www.cinemablend.com/interviews/star-trek-lower-decks-mike-mcmahan-addresses-wild-discovery-klingon-reference-series-finale
“It’s also not firmly [established]–another multiversal shift we saw is it turned into a Klingon sail barge. “
LD also has the disco Section 31 with the black badges also established in Discovery. Stupid idea but LD acknowledges it. The crossover episode worked in both directions. LD visited SNW, in Tendi’s past, and Unu/SNW enterprise appears on a recruitment poster in the LD period. SNW crew went animated due to hallucinations. The next episode of LD acknowledged their Pike encounter from the crossover….
Even if it was some convoluted russian nesting dolls parallel universe that is a parallel universe of a parallel universe (inception style) via STD, SNW and LD and Prodigy and all the other shows that mention Disco events or are spinoffs). The ideas of parallel universes are still a “canon” concept. Otherwise Mirror Universe would not be canon.
It’s been noted by old trek producers and writers they mostly avoided setting a date for the eugenics wars. Their comments in example in Voyager had to do with their decision how to portray California in Future's End episodes which are set in 1996 Los Angeles there is no indication the war happened indeed California looks untouched.
Seeing as Spock seemed to imply that much of the world was hit with neutron/nuclear bombs iirc in another episode? It seems off. Also Spock conflated Eugenics Wars with WW3 something which TNG retconned WW3 placement, and moved up into the 21st century. Also Khan calls it a world war too in the same episode.
SNW wasn’t the first series to conflate WW3 and Eugenics Wars that honor goes back to TOS itself…. And it’s also mentioned most of world population was bombed in the same episode Space Seed.
In anycase in Voy they did toss in an Easter egg of a photo of a DY-100 launch taken from the Khan episode without context (iirc it’s stated that Botany Bay launch was largely in secret, there were no records, only rumors, so they didn’t want people to know they had left or where they had left to, and therefore not something you’d expect to be seen in office of an observatory where it’s found, though it could just be a launch of some other Dy-100 launched back then), it’s a blink or you’ll miss it image. But they tossed in at least one other Star Trek Easter egg as well including Talosian action figures which were sold back in 1996.
The producers have said there reasoning for not showing a nuclear wasteland back then was because h they wanted people to relate to the 1996 setting in our real world, and it was using elements of real world history such as the rise of internet and computer revolution. Very similar reason why SNW moves the war as well.
It may have been moved as early as TNG although it’s not specified in as much that Roddenberry moved WW3 to mid 21st century. Khan is mentioned at least once during the shows run but not when he lived.
———
It’s worth noting even Roddenberry ignored or decanonized much of the TOS/TOS movies and TAS apparently while he was making TNG. Although in theory TOS was fully bought back into the fold by producers after his death other than them retconning or avoiding or ignoring certain details like hard dates of eugenics wars…
“See, people can easily catch us, and say "well, wait a minute, in 'Balance of Terror', they knew that the Romulans had a cloaking device, and then in 'The Enterprise Incident', they don't know anything about cloaking devices, but they're gonna steal this one because it's obviously just been developed, so how the hell do you explain that?" We can't. There are some things we just can't explain, especially when it comes from the third season. So, yes, third season is canon up to the point of contradiction, or where it's just so bad... you know, we kind of cringe when people ask us, "well, what happened in 'Plato's Stepchildren', and 'And the Children Shall Lead', and 'Spock's Brain', and so on — it's like, please, he wasn't even producing it at that point. But, generally, [canon is] the original series, not really the animated, the first movie to a certain extent, the rest of the films in certain aspects but not in all... I know that it's very difficult to understand. It literally is point by point. I sometimes do not know how he's going to answer a question when I go into his office, I really do not always know, and — and I know it better probably than anybody, what it is that Gene likes and doesn't like.[3]— Richard Arnold, 1991
Another thing that makes canon a little confusing. Gene R. himself had a habit of decanonizing things. He didn't like the way the animated series turned out, so he proclaimed that it was not canon. He also didn't like a lot of the movies. So he didn't much consider them canon either. And – okay, I'm really going to scare you with this one – after he got TNG going, he... well... he sort of decided that some of The Original Series wasn't canon either. I had a discussion with him once, where I cited a couple things that were very clearly canon in The Original Series, and he told me he didn't think that way anymore, and that he now thought of TNG as canon wherever there was conflict between the two. He admitted it was revisionist thinking, but so be it.[4]— Paula Block, 2005
———-
Oddly enough while DS9 did bring back references to the eugenics war they place it in 22nd century if you do the math given in one episode. The writer has admitted that was a mistake based on a line by Khan on ST2, but they also wanted to avoid being specific with the dates as well they had assumed that the war probably happened later likely 21st century.
Ent made more references to Eugenic Wars. But not necessarily making an exact date. Phlox mentions augments are a 20th century technology. But doesn’t specify that the war itself was. While if you extrapolate from Archer’s family history his great-grandfather lived during the wars. The problem is going back over data and age of his father who died too young from degenerative disease, it implies that his great-grandfather probably born in 21st century…. If we follow average lifespans and generations gap data… especially when considering comments about population being drastically reduced and implication of nuclear wastelands….
Shame that would have been great to remove that
I’m actually kinda disappointed people tried to push fake news clickbait off as fact…. Ir hurts their own credibility. If they had any to begin with.
Respect that FandomPulse didn’t take the bait.
As bad as Kurtzman Trek is it’s not worth spreading false information and lies. And destroy trust of the influencers especially for something that easily fact checked….
https://www.cinemablend.com/interviews/star-trek-lower-decks-mike-mcmahan-addresses-wild-discovery-klingon-reference-series-finale
Unfortunate that it's not true.
It's the fate the execrable Discovery richly deserves.
As long as Kurtzman is in charge it won’t happen he’ll double down. But even if he wasn’t I’m not sure the IP holders have the balls to erase material.
Maybe they might go for total reboot next… and thst could potentially be bad for the IP as well…. All we need is Jane T. Kirk And Jean Lucy Picard, and even more race swapping and gender swapping adventures.
Personally I think the best route is to just stop making content. Stop beating a dead horse. Let the series die….
Giggle