Recently, more male readers have noticed that sci-fi and fantasy, traditionally male-dominated categories, are not producing books geared toward men at all.
The great thing about books that are aimed toward men is that they end up appealing to wider audiences, including women (like me). But books aimed toward women never appeal to a wider (male) audience. And, as you accurately point out, women’s trends somehow end up disgusting and perverted. (Feminism ruins everything.)
And I’ve never liked women’s fiction/romance/porb EVER—and I know I’m not the only woman who feels the same way—so our side of the market gets left out by this woke, pervert garbage, too. Whatever happened to a great fantasy adventure story about characters that are actually admirable?!
This is exactly how feminism works. Like a cancer it creeps in and slowly takes over until it has consumed the host and then moves on. Feminist women have already destroyed many male dominant popular IP's like Star Wars. IN the 80's * 90's teh feminist were demanding entrance to traditionally male only spaces ( sound familiar?) from gentlemen's clubs to men's gyms. It was OK for women to have female only versions o these but men could not be allowed the same; women demanded access and once they got it they began the process of changing everything to accommodate them. They did the same thing when they entered the workforce. And now today that men are trying to enter traditionally female only spaces their have a fit. I agree this trans thing is wrong but feminism laid the ground work to make it possible.
Their strategy is
1) Demand access
2) Upon gaining access change it all
3) Start targeting men (ie sexual harassment ) who aren't towing the feminist narrative
Is it a wonder men don't want to work with women today? And since HR is overwhelming female run, know that HR is NOT their to help you at all! Company first, female employee next and then you come in last unless you're gay or an illegal.
REMEBER: Only that which turns men on is porn. What women are turned on by, the trashy romance novels, aren't pron. Yes they have teh same impact on the female brain that porn does on teh male brain but we're not allowed to call it porn for women because we're not allowed to be honest about anything to do with women that challenges feminist narratives,
Public shaming or the lack of it is a major factor in why female behavior has gotten so bad today. Women are high in agreeableness and so things like public shaming will coerce many into ending their bad behavior.
I look at it that many girls are raised to please their peer group - and their peer group, when run by mean girls, will encourage hate and pettiness. One of the greatest lessons we can teach our children is to run counter to their crowd.
I'd say it's Target, and Target's targeted towards chicks, but I haven't been in a Barnes & Noble or Books-a-million in a few years, so I couldn't tell you what it's like.
It wouldn't surprise me if more books were like 50 shades, considering that was a big smut seller.
This makes me consider whether I should just say "fuck it" and publish my fantasy novel right now, since it serves that male audience.
However, I don't want to make a rash decision as I have yet to grow my audience. While this may be viral, I don't have enough confidence to gamble on it.
From the comments I saw on "X," most people had positive feedback. There was one person in particular who disagreed with you (numerous times). He ("he" claims he's a man) posted 25-30 comments when one, two at most, would've sufficed. His remarks clearly showed that 1) he had no idea what he was talking about and 2) he desperately needed to reduce his soy intake.
This seems an unnecessarily negative take. I doubt women maliciously invaded publishing because they just hated men so much. People are allowed to like things and to write/read what comes naturally to them.
Now having said that...yes, that novel Tampa is beyond disgusting. There needs to be more shame and more criticism of crap like that.
Respectfully, I disagree. It’s not an *unrealistically* negative take; the reality of the industry IS that bad, and has been for at least 20 years.
The problem isn’t intent, or the original intent of women who entered the space (though there’s a case to be made that they absolutely did enter to accomplish this very goal.) The problem today is that people (mostly women) have taken over all the gatekeeper jobs, in publishing, critical reviews, bookstores, etc, and most of them now operate on a very specific agenda. For some, it’s feminism, and for others it’s some other brand of DEI. All those roads lead to garbage.
Personally, I don’t care if there are pornish “romance” writers in the fantasy space. It’s shameful, and I avoid it, and reading it shouldn’t be socially acceptable. But the fact it exists? Whatever. Like you said, people are allowed to write and read whatever they want (as long as it’s not slander or a call to violence).
But I do care that activists are forcing an agenda on me by publishing ONLY that crap, elevating it with positive reviews and stolen awards, and then suppressing the quality material I actually want to read.
The first amendment only works if everyone gets the same merit-based footing, and if everyone agrees to a baseline of similar values. The second the publishing industry started picking winners and losers, it ceased to be a free market of ideas, and quality entertainment died with it.
IDK I'm not sure I agree that it's some sort of hostile takeover.
I agree that most of this stuff is crap but on the other hand...people are allowed to like crap. People are allowed to prefer, publish, and promote crap. I hate reading about tiny women and huge dominant men but on the other hand I understand that nobody is obliged to write novels about 7ft berserker warrior women just for me and that if I want such material it's my job to write it myself.
I was skeptical about it for a long time as well. But the influential people/gatekeepers in the space are not shy about telling you what they’re doing. They are saying a “hostile takeover” is their intent. I believe them.
What you’re describing is a free market. I’m on board with you there; that’s the world I’d like to live in. But it’s not a free market.
(To be clear: IDK who this antisemite is, but I never said anything about Jews. Talk about an unintelligent non sequitur.)
And, to your question, yes. If you’re paying attention, all these artists, movie stars, agents, etc are overtly saying what they’re doing. I know of multiple creators who’ve been told behind the scenes their book won’t be published because they’re not women, Muslim, black, gay, or “transgender”—or whatever the currency of the day happens to be. Whenever there’s an adaptation, they’ll tell you how they’re changing it to tear down “the patriarchy” etc. Look at artists’ statements and in interviews: they explicitly say how they are excited to enter into [X space] because they want to change it. (Fandom Pulse does a good job calling a lot of this out!)
The thing that bothers me is what is conspicuously absent: How are these people focused on making it more entertaining, more appealing to what audiences actually want—better in some real way? (I’ve never seen any compelling argument ever for why these agendas add to entertainment value.) How are they engaging with and appreciating the great spaces they’re entering into—rather than just focusing on fundamentally transforming it with a (political) agenda?
They all talk about their work as if they are propagandists, rather than entertainers, so at this point I’m pretty comfortable treating them as propaganda mongers.
Agreed: I don't think women originally entered the field to 'hate men' - but power begats arrogance and arrogance begats closemindedness. One must come down from the Towers of Power if one is to touch base with customers; if publishers considers the people who buy their products beneath them, they won't market to them.
For the last couple years, my experiences trying to sell my novel and short story books to independent bookstores have convinced me that they are under some sort of clandestine standing orders not to accept fiction from certain demographic segments of the population. Posts like this merely confirm my experience is not unique.
I know we try to avoid this sort of thing here, but is no one going to mention the name of the lady who wrote that Button porn book? I'm sure it is an accurate description of how she spends her evenings.
Target is notorious for being woke and liberal. Back in the day all I ever saw was books about Obama and Moochelle. I used to turn the book so only the back showed - LOL!! But, yes, nowadays it's all these fem authors everywhere. Luckily, I don't read this crap. I read mostly history or mysteries, however, if anyone if interested, been reading the Eden series by Paul Wallis. Got interested in him by watching his Youtube videos. Aliens in the Bible!! Real sci-fi!
The great thing about books that are aimed toward men is that they end up appealing to wider audiences, including women (like me). But books aimed toward women never appeal to a wider (male) audience. And, as you accurately point out, women’s trends somehow end up disgusting and perverted. (Feminism ruins everything.)
And I’ve never liked women’s fiction/romance/porb EVER—and I know I’m not the only woman who feels the same way—so our side of the market gets left out by this woke, pervert garbage, too. Whatever happened to a great fantasy adventure story about characters that are actually admirable?!
This is exactly how feminism works. Like a cancer it creeps in and slowly takes over until it has consumed the host and then moves on. Feminist women have already destroyed many male dominant popular IP's like Star Wars. IN the 80's * 90's teh feminist were demanding entrance to traditionally male only spaces ( sound familiar?) from gentlemen's clubs to men's gyms. It was OK for women to have female only versions o these but men could not be allowed the same; women demanded access and once they got it they began the process of changing everything to accommodate them. They did the same thing when they entered the workforce. And now today that men are trying to enter traditionally female only spaces their have a fit. I agree this trans thing is wrong but feminism laid the ground work to make it possible.
Their strategy is
1) Demand access
2) Upon gaining access change it all
3) Start targeting men (ie sexual harassment ) who aren't towing the feminist narrative
Is it a wonder men don't want to work with women today? And since HR is overwhelming female run, know that HR is NOT their to help you at all! Company first, female employee next and then you come in last unless you're gay or an illegal.
105% agree with Douglas.
It's BookTok and Female Pr0n Slop all the way down within Mainstream Publishing and on Amazon.
REMEBER: Only that which turns men on is porn. What women are turned on by, the trashy romance novels, aren't pron. Yes they have teh same impact on the female brain that porn does on teh male brain but we're not allowed to call it porn for women because we're not allowed to be honest about anything to do with women that challenges feminist narratives,
Laugh at them and turn the shame burner to "high".
Public shaming or the lack of it is a major factor in why female behavior has gotten so bad today. Women are high in agreeableness and so things like public shaming will coerce many into ending their bad behavior.
I look at it that many girls are raised to please their peer group - and their peer group, when run by mean girls, will encourage hate and pettiness. One of the greatest lessons we can teach our children is to run counter to their crowd.
I'd say it's Target, and Target's targeted towards chicks, but I haven't been in a Barnes & Noble or Books-a-million in a few years, so I couldn't tell you what it's like.
It wouldn't surprise me if more books were like 50 shades, considering that was a big smut seller.
I’ve gone to book stores and the arrangement is the same
There’s no shelf for good men
The back cover of Tampa is disturbing, paedo garbage that deserves the flame. Of course Salon liked it.
It was horrifying. Their use of 'sexy' words to describe SA on a child victim was utterly degenerate.
This makes me consider whether I should just say "fuck it" and publish my fantasy novel right now, since it serves that male audience.
However, I don't want to make a rash decision as I have yet to grow my audience. While this may be viral, I don't have enough confidence to gamble on it.
I would say yes - use substack to prep your audience!
Douglas said what we've all been saying. Hopefully, his video will catch more views.
Thanks for posting!
They taking a collective dump on me but you catch the most flak when you’re right over the target
From the comments I saw on "X," most people had positive feedback. There was one person in particular who disagreed with you (numerous times). He ("he" claims he's a man) posted 25-30 comments when one, two at most, would've sufficed. His remarks clearly showed that 1) he had no idea what he was talking about and 2) he desperately needed to reduce his soy intake.
Go to used book stores. Find oldies and classics. Those will keep you busy the rest of your life.
For some distinctly male humorous takes on the fantasy school novel genre, look no further than Snidely Porpington and the House of Borke ;)
This seems an unnecessarily negative take. I doubt women maliciously invaded publishing because they just hated men so much. People are allowed to like things and to write/read what comes naturally to them.
Now having said that...yes, that novel Tampa is beyond disgusting. There needs to be more shame and more criticism of crap like that.
Respectfully, I disagree. It’s not an *unrealistically* negative take; the reality of the industry IS that bad, and has been for at least 20 years.
The problem isn’t intent, or the original intent of women who entered the space (though there’s a case to be made that they absolutely did enter to accomplish this very goal.) The problem today is that people (mostly women) have taken over all the gatekeeper jobs, in publishing, critical reviews, bookstores, etc, and most of them now operate on a very specific agenda. For some, it’s feminism, and for others it’s some other brand of DEI. All those roads lead to garbage.
Personally, I don’t care if there are pornish “romance” writers in the fantasy space. It’s shameful, and I avoid it, and reading it shouldn’t be socially acceptable. But the fact it exists? Whatever. Like you said, people are allowed to write and read whatever they want (as long as it’s not slander or a call to violence).
But I do care that activists are forcing an agenda on me by publishing ONLY that crap, elevating it with positive reviews and stolen awards, and then suppressing the quality material I actually want to read.
The first amendment only works if everyone gets the same merit-based footing, and if everyone agrees to a baseline of similar values. The second the publishing industry started picking winners and losers, it ceased to be a free market of ideas, and quality entertainment died with it.
IDK I'm not sure I agree that it's some sort of hostile takeover.
I agree that most of this stuff is crap but on the other hand...people are allowed to like crap. People are allowed to prefer, publish, and promote crap. I hate reading about tiny women and huge dominant men but on the other hand I understand that nobody is obliged to write novels about 7ft berserker warrior women just for me and that if I want such material it's my job to write it myself.
I was skeptical about it for a long time as well. But the influential people/gatekeepers in the space are not shy about telling you what they’re doing. They are saying a “hostile takeover” is their intent. I believe them.
What you’re describing is a free market. I’m on board with you there; that’s the world I’d like to live in. But it’s not a free market.
Wait, people have overtly said this is on purpose?
(To be clear: IDK who this antisemite is, but I never said anything about Jews. Talk about an unintelligent non sequitur.)
And, to your question, yes. If you’re paying attention, all these artists, movie stars, agents, etc are overtly saying what they’re doing. I know of multiple creators who’ve been told behind the scenes their book won’t be published because they’re not women, Muslim, black, gay, or “transgender”—or whatever the currency of the day happens to be. Whenever there’s an adaptation, they’ll tell you how they’re changing it to tear down “the patriarchy” etc. Look at artists’ statements and in interviews: they explicitly say how they are excited to enter into [X space] because they want to change it. (Fandom Pulse does a good job calling a lot of this out!)
The thing that bothers me is what is conspicuously absent: How are these people focused on making it more entertaining, more appealing to what audiences actually want—better in some real way? (I’ve never seen any compelling argument ever for why these agendas add to entertainment value.) How are they engaging with and appreciating the great spaces they’re entering into—rather than just focusing on fundamentally transforming it with a (political) agenda?
They all talk about their work as if they are propagandists, rather than entertainers, so at this point I’m pretty comfortable treating them as propaganda mongers.
TBH no I'm not really paying attention much because most of my free time is being spent on a zombie novel series. Thanks for perspective though.
Jews always do that, lol.
Agreed: I don't think women originally entered the field to 'hate men' - but power begats arrogance and arrogance begats closemindedness. One must come down from the Towers of Power if one is to touch base with customers; if publishers considers the people who buy their products beneath them, they won't market to them.
No. You Sound Jewish.
I'll take you seriously when you bring something a bit more logical and sound to the table than antisemitism. Until then go back to Qanon.
Lol, the QLARP are Christcucks who love Israel. LMAO EVEN! Woman, you don't know a damn thing about the internet and you need to leave it.
For the last couple years, my experiences trying to sell my novel and short story books to independent bookstores have convinced me that they are under some sort of clandestine standing orders not to accept fiction from certain demographic segments of the population. Posts like this merely confirm my experience is not unique.
It's extraordinary how much pure, unadulterated HATE was poured out not just on John, but on ALL men in that thread. It was terrifying...
All Women Are Like That. Every single last one. Any man who isn't an 11/10 Super-Chad who will allow them to goon forever is always hated.
I know we try to avoid this sort of thing here, but is no one going to mention the name of the lady who wrote that Button porn book? I'm sure it is an accurate description of how she spends her evenings.
Target is notorious for being woke and liberal. Back in the day all I ever saw was books about Obama and Moochelle. I used to turn the book so only the back showed - LOL!! But, yes, nowadays it's all these fem authors everywhere. Luckily, I don't read this crap. I read mostly history or mysteries, however, if anyone if interested, been reading the Eden series by Paul Wallis. Got interested in him by watching his Youtube videos. Aliens in the Bible!! Real sci-fi!