Exes just dropped on Prime Video, your feature directorial debut after years of acting work, a season fifteen Supernatural directing credit, and your award-winning short Mama Bear. Where did the core idea come from, and what made you and Lee Ehlers know this was the one to build a feature around?
Honestly, the entertainment industry's bottom has kind of fallen out for a journeyman actor Director like me. There was no other choice but to make a movie with friends and family and provide jobs for the people who need them. Exes is a fun, minimal location date night movie that says all the things you would never say to your spouse! We just wanted to make some fun entertainment so audiences wouldn’t have to sit through a three-hour feature film or watch another remake, sequel, or prequel. Lee Ehlers and I have been collaborating on projects for about 15 years. We understand each other’s tone of creation, and we like to stay in the fun, action, comedy world! Exes seemed like something that was attainable, and that we could entertain audiences with something fresh.
The “exes forced to work together to survive” premise is fertile ground and reminds me of great films like Mr. and Mrs. Smith, True Lies, and The War of the Roses. What did you want Exes to do that those movies didn’t?
We wanted to say the things that those movies would never say! And we did just that! We allowed the relationship between Brieanna and myself to stem from our convention circuit life together over the last 10 years. We like to talk trash! And that’s what this movie does!
Lee Ehlers has been your collaborator going back to Mama Bear and earlier shorts like Hard Crime and Trigger. What does that long creative partnership give you that you couldn’t get pulling in a different writer for a project of this scale?
Trust, to put it simply. I’ve tried to collaborate with many producers and writers, and it always seems to be that when push comes to shove, I’m the only one working. Lea is an ex-Detroit, Michigan police officer, and I grew up as a blue-collar mechanic's kid in Hollywood, Florida. We’re not afraid to get dirty and get the job done. We’re extremely hard workers, and we recognize that in each other. Not only did I direct and act in this movie, but Lea and I both produced and executive produced it. I personally did craft service myself, Lea and I swept the floors, and wrapped out our production warehouse when the film was complete. There’s no job we won’t do, and I have a partner in crime who’s willing to get his hands dirty; it’s a great feeling.
The cast list reads like a superstar convention guest lineup: Briana Buckmaster, Mark Sheppard, Ruth Connell, Adam Fergus, Felicia Day, plus your wife Mandy Musgrave. And Ricky Whittle from American Gods in there too. How much of Exes is built on the relationships you’ve spent twenty years building in that family? Any stories on how this all came together?
When you’re making an independent feature film, you need the best actors possible to show up and do their best acting as fast as possible! I didn’t have time to get to know any new actors. I needed people who were going to show up, take some bumps and bruises, and keep going when things got tough. Every single person in this film is a friend and/or family. I want to make movies with people who give a shit about each other and truly care. There is no other option but to pick up the phone and go through every phone number I had stored from my 20 years in Hollywood. I asked everybody I knew to help out. People who wanted to make something creative and fun!
Mark Sheppard is famously sharp, has very strong opinions, and is a working-class craftsman type who knows exactly what he wants. What’s it like directing him versus being on a set with him as solely a fellow actor?
Mark Sheppard is one of the most brilliant actors working and has been in just about every damn thing you can imagine! He’s a seasoned professional, a great Director, and even more, one of the best mentors and friends I’ve ever had in my life. We both have stories, and we’ve shared them amongst ourselves. Stories that tie and bind men together forever. I know what he’s been through, and he knows what I’ve been through. That’s the type of friend who shows up and delivers for you. I didn’t bother directing him very much, other than that I wanted him to have an American dialect. Sitting across a table and acting with Mark Sheppard is really a master class in the craft.
I trusted him not to let me screw it up. He told me when I was, and we adjusted and moved forward. He’s more than a brother to me.
You came up with Robert Singer to direct Supernatural 15.15 Gimme Shelter. He's been a guiding hand for that show since season one. What did directing under his eye on Supernatural prepare you for as a feature director, and what didn't translate?
To be honest, Bob Singer is the reason I was able to direct SUPERNATURAL. I have a lot of friends there, and a lot of people were pulling for me, but I sent him my proof of concept film, MAMA BEAR, and he made it all happen for me. Having Bob and his wife on site for the first few days of me directing my first episode of Supernatural was terrifying; they're icons in the business. The way that man ran SUPERNATURAL made it great! Spending 16 days in prep and production on that show taught me a lifetime of lessons about how to show up prepared and get the damn job done! There’s always gonna be problems. It’s a director’s job to overcome them and make sure everybody feels good about it. There was nothing Exes could throw at me that I wasn’t prepared for after shooting and directing SUPERNATURAL.
You spent fifteen years as a working actor in everything from network procedurals to daytime soaps to genre television. Most actors who move into directing say it changes how they watch performances forever. What's the biggest blind spot you discovered you had as an actor that you can now see from the director's side?
That’s a good question. I think just visualizing scenes from a director's eye allows you to dial in your acting performance far better. If you can direct it and imagine how cool it would look with your direction, you can become the actor you need to attain that vision. It’s really a cheat code..
You're not just directing…
You nailed it! It is a massive undertaking. I would’ve never even attempted it had one of my best friends, Richard Speight Junior, not directed an episode of Supernatural, where he played three characters and directed himself. Richard is the reason I became a Director. I watched him go through the Warner Brothers school of directing with iconic teacher Bethany Rooney, who directed my wife and me on our very first TV show. I was inspired to see one of my favorite character actors flip the script and jump behind the camera, and do it seamlessly and with incredible drive, and when it came to Exes, I called Richard Speight. I said I can’t make this movie unless your eyes are on the monitor and you tell me when I can move forward and when I can’t. We had a 15-day shoot, and we lost three days to fires. There is nobody in Hollywood who’s pulling off feature films in the action-comedy genre in under 15 days; if it weren’t for Richard Spade Junior, being one of the best creative producers in the business, Exes would’ve tanked, and it all would’ve fallen apart.
…You've built something a lot of working actors talk about wanting and almost none actually pull off, a parallel directing career that uses the relationships from the acting career as a launching pad. What's the advice you'd give an actor who wants to start moving behind the camera but doesn't know where to start?
