I made my bones in the writing industry, as an indie author, writing books for men.
I started doing it in 2011, because I couldn't find the books I wanted. Books with guys in them doing the things guys do. Not books about women who were uber powerful girl bosdes and always right and winning, while the men in the story were always second class.
You all know those stories, you've all seen them.
I quickly started piling up sales and best sellers. When people asked me what my secret was, I told them: I write for men. I write men's adventure. I write the stuff guys want to buy and read. I even had to branch out into a pen name (Jan Stryvant) to meet the demand.
Yes, once you've sold over a million copies, people start to notice.
Being one of the first (if not the first) to start this new trend was rewarding, but it also wasn't without a lot of pitfalls. A lot of feminist groups used to come to everything new I put out and 1-star the hell out of it and write vicious reviews. (oh how I miss being able to reply to reviews on Amazon! I miss calling out those harpies).
But the biggest reward isn't just the sales (though it's nice to make money), no it's all of the OTHER authors now out there writing men's adventure and other stories for MEN to read!
Oh, and one of the surprises I found out along the way? WOMEN a lot of women, ALSO want stories with strong male characters in them. Turns out there are a lot of women who are attracted to men being men, and women being women. Half of my fans of the Valens Legacy series, which I wrote under my pen name, were women - hell, I was getting fan mail from female CEO's!
What you say about women enjoying your books, too, reminds me of conversations I've had with people about why many men enjoy My Little Pony. Other than some solid storytelling, it really seems to come down to: Men like masculine men and feminine women, the ponies are appealing because they embody feminine virtues in the right way and still have fun telling a story.
I think it goes the other way, too. Women like masculine qualities in men, and even though they like their kind of stories, they can enjoy a man being masculine in a men's story, too.
Dick Francis. J.R.R. Tolkien. C.S.Lewis. Jim Butcher. - I own most of their books and re-read them.
And trust me, the "female characters" are not the draw therein: All the characters are. Which one would hope, is the point. Ticky-boxes are for the aggressively mediocre.
And I'm not saying I subscribe to them. But men like to read books of a certain style and type that the majority of women don't. Men like different things. But Tradpub decided back in the late 80's that they didn't want to write the things that men wanted to read, because women weren't being catered to enough (even though women bought more books than men) but most of these publishers were now being run by women, so - they discriminated. Heavily.
I saw what was going on and started writing the kinds of books I wanted to be able to read. And suddenly I'm having best sellers left and right. No advertising, just word of mouth and a good story. Yes, I have female characters in my stories too, and some of them are quite kick-ass. But not at the expense of the hero.
As I have a lot of female fans, I'm obviously doing something right. But the people you listed above were not writing 'men's adventure'. They were just writing for the whole audience. Nothing wrong with that. But they tried to kill off an entire segment of the market. Science Fiction, which is almost exclusively read by men, damn near died. Think of how many shelves it has in Barnes & Nobles these days, versus 20 years ago. It's less than a tenth. (and no, games and Manga don't count).
I wouldn't even say it's a case of 'ticky boxes' it's just a case of who are you targeting?
"**But men like to read books of a certain style and type that the majority of women don't. Men like different things. But Tradpub decided back in the late 80's that they didn't want to write the things that men want to read**"
Fair dinkum.
But did you know that Mary Stewart was popular with both sexes, despite writing romances? Ditto Georgette Heyer, though men preferred her mysteries. Did you know that women loved Zane Grey? I only ever read two of them - not my cuppa*- but it was a girl who got me into it.
When whoever it was in publishing** killed Westerns, when they trashed pulp, they killed stories EVERYONE likes. Granted they were trying to go for the jugular of what men wanted, but they were cutting their own throats.
Frankly, if we leave men and women alone to write the stories they want to write as men and women, we all win. Not "even if" but because some genres swing heavily toward men (or women).
IOW, I think we agree more than we disagree and I am cheering you on.
P.S. If you get a chance, pick up Jon Sciezka's Knuckleheads. I think you'd get a kick out of it.
(*It's the setting)
(**My hypothesis? Low status envy-bitten men, and bitter envious aging termagants who drove feminist)
Having a special sale or spot at some point where we made available things that people have on Bookfunnel or some of the place they can be permanently downloaded would be a good idea.
I made my bones in the writing industry, as an indie author, writing books for men.
I started doing it in 2011, because I couldn't find the books I wanted. Books with guys in them doing the things guys do. Not books about women who were uber powerful girl bosdes and always right and winning, while the men in the story were always second class.
You all know those stories, you've all seen them.
I quickly started piling up sales and best sellers. When people asked me what my secret was, I told them: I write for men. I write men's adventure. I write the stuff guys want to buy and read. I even had to branch out into a pen name (Jan Stryvant) to meet the demand.
Yes, once you've sold over a million copies, people start to notice.
Being one of the first (if not the first) to start this new trend was rewarding, but it also wasn't without a lot of pitfalls. A lot of feminist groups used to come to everything new I put out and 1-star the hell out of it and write vicious reviews. (oh how I miss being able to reply to reviews on Amazon! I miss calling out those harpies).
But the biggest reward isn't just the sales (though it's nice to make money), no it's all of the OTHER authors now out there writing men's adventure and other stories for MEN to read!
Oh, and one of the surprises I found out along the way? WOMEN a lot of women, ALSO want stories with strong male characters in them. Turns out there are a lot of women who are attracted to men being men, and women being women. Half of my fans of the Valens Legacy series, which I wrote under my pen name, were women - hell, I was getting fan mail from female CEO's!
Who knew? :-)
What you say about women enjoying your books, too, reminds me of conversations I've had with people about why many men enjoy My Little Pony. Other than some solid storytelling, it really seems to come down to: Men like masculine men and feminine women, the ponies are appealing because they embody feminine virtues in the right way and still have fun telling a story.
I think it goes the other way, too. Women like masculine qualities in men, and even though they like their kind of stories, they can enjoy a man being masculine in a men's story, too.
Patrick OBrian was popular with women. And there were five or six female chacters in the full Master and Commader run.
Dick Francis. J.R.R. Tolkien. C.S.Lewis. Jim Butcher. - I own most of their books and re-read them.
And trust me, the "female characters" are not the draw therein: All the characters are. Which one would hope, is the point. Ticky-boxes are for the aggressively mediocre.
And I'm not saying I subscribe to them. But men like to read books of a certain style and type that the majority of women don't. Men like different things. But Tradpub decided back in the late 80's that they didn't want to write the things that men wanted to read, because women weren't being catered to enough (even though women bought more books than men) but most of these publishers were now being run by women, so - they discriminated. Heavily.
I saw what was going on and started writing the kinds of books I wanted to be able to read. And suddenly I'm having best sellers left and right. No advertising, just word of mouth and a good story. Yes, I have female characters in my stories too, and some of them are quite kick-ass. But not at the expense of the hero.
As I have a lot of female fans, I'm obviously doing something right. But the people you listed above were not writing 'men's adventure'. They were just writing for the whole audience. Nothing wrong with that. But they tried to kill off an entire segment of the market. Science Fiction, which is almost exclusively read by men, damn near died. Think of how many shelves it has in Barnes & Nobles these days, versus 20 years ago. It's less than a tenth. (and no, games and Manga don't count).
I wouldn't even say it's a case of 'ticky boxes' it's just a case of who are you targeting?
Misandry sells, and tradpub sells a lot of it.
"**But men like to read books of a certain style and type that the majority of women don't. Men like different things. But Tradpub decided back in the late 80's that they didn't want to write the things that men want to read**"
Fair dinkum.
But did you know that Mary Stewart was popular with both sexes, despite writing romances? Ditto Georgette Heyer, though men preferred her mysteries. Did you know that women loved Zane Grey? I only ever read two of them - not my cuppa*- but it was a girl who got me into it.
When whoever it was in publishing** killed Westerns, when they trashed pulp, they killed stories EVERYONE likes. Granted they were trying to go for the jugular of what men wanted, but they were cutting their own throats.
Frankly, if we leave men and women alone to write the stories they want to write as men and women, we all win. Not "even if" but because some genres swing heavily toward men (or women).
IOW, I think we agree more than we disagree and I am cheering you on.
P.S. If you get a chance, pick up Jon Sciezka's Knuckleheads. I think you'd get a kick out of it.
(*It's the setting)
(**My hypothesis? Low status envy-bitten men, and bitter envious aging termagants who drove feminist)
I love it! Unfortunately, unless I can buy an epub version, I can only read the book on my computer or worse, my cellphone.
So do encourage writers (frex, Mary Catelli) who have the option to post their works in some epub-buyable format to include that in the sales.
And of course, where applicable (you know who you are) I'll be buying your books in paper as funds permit.
Having a special sale or spot at some point where we made available things that people have on Bookfunnel or some of the place they can be permanently downloaded would be a good idea.